a question about magick... Religion Forward to friends

  • View author's info Author Posted on Aug 23, 2005 at 10:44 PM


    I'm not really sure that I believe in karma..I've seen too many awful people live rich, healthy lives, and too many angels die young. but i'm also not sure how i feel about black magick (regardless of whether it will come back to me or not, i don't know if i have the right to dispense judgment..). at any rate, my question is this.. is it wrong to cast a spell to teach a lesson, not so much to cause suffering, but to inhibit someone by force (shock collar, anyone?) from continuing in behavior that has hurt you in the past and, since the person in question never learned his lesson, continues to hurt others now? :) any thoughts??
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  • View author's info Posted on Nov 26, 2017 at 11:54 AM


    Wait wait!  Karma and reincarnation are tied, so as a fail safe, the person who seems to be getting away with murder will then just be reincarnated as a seahorse or something.  That puts them back a few reincarnations on their path to nirvana, which is finally jumping out of the karmaic cycle.

     

    I would not advise an attack of any sort.  If they are good, it could backfire.  Relatively recently, this acquaintance wanted to do me harm because I got the best of him.  He totally went into a mental regression and ordered a dozen X-Large pizzas to be delivered to my house.  When they showed up (it took two guys to drag all that pizza over) I initially was confused but after seeing the phone number it was clear it was him.  I explained that it was a prank, gave them his critical information, suggested they file a police report and asked what they were going to do with the pizzas.  It was easy to convince them to give me the pizzas just for the tip since they were going to throw it away.  I laughed inside.  But then the next day, a huge order of Chinese food showed up and same thing happened.  To not waste food, I threw a party with the pizzas and made it publicly known, with some taunting that the harm attempted was actually doing good and it stopped.

     

    But then, he posted an ad on craigslist, with my phone number advertising the newest iPhone for free!  That caused a landslide of calls and txts.  I asked the responders to flag the ad since it was a prank.  Now I had all these txts and missed calls on my phone and being the flirty gentleman I am, I responded to each one and spent a little extra time to get to know some of the females I came across and quickly found myself with a couple of dates.  Once again, I taunted him about how much he is helping me out in life.

  • View author's info Posted on Oct 18, 2009 at 06:29 PM


    How about... walking away from the problem, rather than trying to solve it by using something in which you aren't even sure you believe? Solving the problem yourself seems like a much more productive alternative.
  • View author's info Posted on Jul 31, 2009 at 06:05 AM


    Self Knowledge leads one to know what they can and cannot do. Talentless people need money, lawyers, and other people to do work for them. A talented person works from the other side of the coin. Perhaps a balance can be achieved between the two, or perhaps the balance is in another. Just my thoughts.
  • View author's info Posted on Dec 20, 2005 at 02:22 PM


    I think that magick is real. I think that if you go to someplace where there was witchs and you can feel it. It's in the air, it's in the ground, It's all around us. I also think that everybody can do magic but, you have to go to a place with lots of enery in order to harness the incredable power.
  • View author's info Posted on Oct 30, 2005 at 08:27 PM


    i beleive in Karma some what and i can admit i dont fully understand it, also i dontunderstand because i seemingly get punished for things i dont do or dont deserve... magick i dont really beleive but i think that if somone can harness it then it might be real but still doesnt mean i have to beleive it... oh and grimtongue is insanely smart *bows* im not worthy!
    i beleive in Karma some what and i can admit i dont fully understand it, also i dontunderstand because i seemingly get punished for things i dont do or dont deserve... magick i dont really beleive but i think that if somone can harness it then it might be real but still doesnt mean i have to beleive it... oh and grimtongue is insanely smart *bows* im not worthy!
  • View author's info Posted on Oct 23, 2005 at 07:10 PM


    Karma is a very basic word simply meaning to do or to act.
    So "I don't believe in action" or "doing things is not universal" sounds rather strange.
    With Buddhism, the effects are secondary to the karma, which pertains more to will or intention; a similar action could have different intentions causing it. That is the part where the effects become mystifying to mortal sight, but it lets you know that it depends on what you meant rather than simply what you did. In this way, the universe does not operate as a predetermined, blind machine.
    So with casting a spell, it matters more what is going on with you mentally, than the simple fact you are attempting to operate outside the ordinary physical parameters.
    Karma is a very basic word simply meaning to do or to act.
    So "I don't believe in action" or "doing things is not universal" sounds rather strange.
    With Buddhism, the effects are secondary to the karma, which pertains more to will or intention; a similar action could have different intentions causing it. That is the part where the effects become mystifying to mortal sight, but it lets you know that it depends on what you meant rather than simply what you did. In this way, the universe does not operate as a predetermined, blind machine.
    So with casting a spell, it matters more what is going on with you mentally, than the simple fact you are attempting to operate outside the ordinary physical parameters.
  • View author's info Posted on Oct 21, 2005 at 04:49 PM


    magic is defined as science that simply has noty yet been understood. while this is true we must delve deeper into what magic is and why does it work? magic works b/c you believe it does, thus it's basically psychology. the threefold law only works if you believe it does, so does a spell. if you cast a love spell, you'll be looking for love, you'll act differently...w/e dont feel like getting into this anymore
    magic is defined as science that simply has noty yet been understood. while this is true we must delve deeper into what magic is and why does it work? magic works b/c you believe it does, thus it's basically psychology. the threefold law only works if you believe it does, so does a spell. if you cast a love spell, you'll be looking for love, you'll act differently...w/e dont feel like getting into this anymore
  • View author's info Posted on Oct 04, 2005 at 11:26 PM


    I personally beleive in teaching someone a lesson for negative behaviour.I know I'd do it in the physical world threw action on this plain.then why not with majik.As far as karma goes I personally beleive in cause and effect on many levals microcosim,macrocosim.I also beleive majik should be learned threw unbiased sources.Many sources are an effect of that individuals experience.USE WISDOM WHAT YOU LEARN.
  • View author's info Posted on Sep 29, 2005 at 01:06 AM


    Revenge is bitter sweet sorrow. If what you are talking about is revenge against someone that hurt you in the past and is still hurting you, then binding them from that act of hurt is a protection for YOU. If it involves a third party the lines are more grey and you have to ask yourself.. is it revenge or protection? I am a child in the art of Wicca. I can't tell you about magick yet and I can not tell you how you would best do it. Even if I were more experienced I am not sure I could help you in that. However the advice I can give is this:
    If you are doing it of a pure heart and for the soul reason for protection. Then done properly I think the repercussions may be in your favor. However if it is done for revenge no matter how small, then the repercussions may fall on you negativly later on.
    Keep in mind that I am only one individual, take it into consideration and develope your own conclusions. There is some advise already here that you could learn from as well.

    By the way. I have no clue how to spell repercussions so please.. those smarty pants out there, don't give me a spelling lesson. :)
  • View author's info Posted on Sep 26, 2005 at 08:21 PM


    Maybe Karma isnt as specifc as to make what you do to others come back at in the same way you dished it out.

    However, every choice you make, every energy you raise within your psyche, every experience, sensation, emotion, and choice is stored in your psyche and energy.

    This energy accumulates over time, and taints or colors every experince you have with the outside world, and gives you a certain "vibe" that others can feel from you.

    Its merely cause and effect.
    You reap what you sow.

    Still, that doesnt mean that justice will always be carried out, or that the most evil people in the world will not come into positions of power.

    It merely means that every action, every choice you commit to will affect every experience from that point after. The energy you hold inside yourself will attract or repell live experiences, and lead to your own internal joy and suffering.
  • View author's info Posted on Sep 24, 2005 at 01:31 AM


    i believe in karma. i'm not so sure that i do in magic
  • View author's info Posted on Sep 11, 2005 at 03:26 AM



    Shaberon write:

    That's kind of like saying you have to be a physicist to believe in nuclear fusion, while the sun has been producing fusion energy for billions of years.


    It's nothing like saying that. I'm not a phsyicist, yet I believe in nuclear fusion. However, because I am not a physicist, I do not fully understand nuclear fusion. One can believe in karma, and not understand it. This is the crux of the matter I was discussing.



    No, tht is not what I am trying to say. Reincarnation is not a purely oriental teaching. Karma COULD have many effects, true, but only one who fully understands karma can say. I dont fully understand karma, as it is not something that can be fully understood by reading a book or two on the weekends.


    On the surface, it may seem so, but for example Origen, a follower of the Eclectic School, attempted to transmit the idea in xianity, and was persecuted for it.
    Sempiternity, the doctrine that a soul is created at birth and suffers eternal punishment or reward for the deeds of one brief lifetime, is horrendous and false, but is what people in general believe.
    Also, karma occurs beyond the personal scale. One is flooded by energies set in motion by one's family, nation, and the whole world. So it may be an Indian word, but it refers to universal energy just as much as any other term does.


    But the original post was not refering to a universal energy, it was refering to karma. The word may be of oriental/ indian origin, but the word instills an idea that goes beyond a simple unversal energy. Karma is a very specific belief, and dumbing it down to simple universal energy is like dumbing down nuclear fusion to being just something that produces light and heat. One doesn't have to be hindu or buddhist to believe in karma. Not since all the new age hippies got a hold of it. Not since "do what thou will" became the whole of the law, so to speak. In my belief system, karma does not apply to me. A similar, but altogether different set of rules applies: orlog and wyrd. Many hindu will tell you you have to be indian to be hindu. They will tell you karma does not effect those who are not hindu. It was, and in many cases still is a folkish religion. It is not universal and all inclusive. No religion should be. But that is an entirely different discussion. The question was in regard to karma. I got the feeling she did not understand what karma was. Karma is very specific in its original meaning. Possibly the new agers and the wiccans who tend to borrow bits and pieces of other religions scraped the meaning and kept the name, as they have done with so much else. Apparently, what I know about karma is something other than what she knows about karma. Eccecticism.... sigh.
  • View author's info Posted on Sep 06, 2005 at 12:58 PM


    What you have refered to is not Karma. Karma is an entirely hindu concept, and buddhist by default. The flow of energy goes by many names, be it karma, three-fold-law, wyrd, golden rule, etc. So while energy is universal, Karma is not. Karma also effects people in the next incarnation, not in this one. So being Hindu or Buddhist is essential to the belief in karma, or at least the full understanding of it.

    That's kind of like saying you have to be a physicist to believe in nuclear fusion, while the sun has been producing fusion energy for billions of years. Karma could have its effects in a second, or many lifetimes from now; perhaps you are trying to say that reincarnation is a purely oriental teaching. On the surface, it may seem so, but for example Origen, a follower of the Eclectic School, attempted to transmit the idea in xianity, and was persecuted for it.
    Sempiternity, the doctrine that a soul is created at birth and suffers eternal punishment or reward for the deeds of one brief lifetime, is horrendous and false, but is what people in general believe.
    Also, karma occurs beyond the personal scale. One is flooded by energies set in motion by one's family, nation, and the whole world. So it may be an Indian word, but it refers to universal energy just as much as any other term does.
  • View author's info Posted on Aug 31, 2005 at 04:12 PM



    Shaberon write:
    However I cannot figure out dismissing karma as a "Hindu concept". It simply means cause and effect, or action and reaction, and operates continuously. The fact that it may appear random or time-delayed to us notwithstanding. Energy always moves, it may change form, but it balances out.



    What you have refered to is not Karma. Karma is an entirely hindu concept, and buddhist by default. The flow of energy goes by many names, be it karma, three-fold-law, wyrd, golden rule, etc. So while energy is universal, Karma is not. Karma also effects people in the next incarnation, not in this one. So being Hindu or Buddhist is essential to the belief in karma, or at least the full understanding of it.
  • View author's info Posted on Aug 31, 2005 at 01:18 PM


    although i agree with grimtongue about not worrieing about Karma personally i don't worrie.

    But if your are still worried about using black magick for any reson be it to teach some a lesson, all you have to remember is at the end of the day, if this person is doing some you disagree with or is hurting other around you then why shouldn't do some thing about.

    Dispense judgment on others (why not, even one else does every day of their live wether is be magickal or not.)

    The only person who know if your are doing the right thing is you. If you are worried about Karma do something nice for some one else balance the scales.

    Rule off the left and right hand: "Blanace is required in all thing nature, life and magick. Good and evil on can not exist with out the other."
  • View author's info Posted on Aug 30, 2005 at 02:15 PM


    I am not sure I understand the original question, be more specific, but would not say anything is arbitrarily "wrong". Those books Grimtongue mentioned are all worthwhile, and Llewelyn is like a long trip through candyland. However I cannot figure out dismissing karma as a "Hindu concept". It simply means cause and effect, or action and reaction, and operates continuously. The fact that it may appear random or time-delayed to us notwithstanding. Energy always moves, it may change form, but it balances out.
  • View author's info Posted on Aug 24, 2005 at 05:57 AM


    One more thing. Do the research for yourself and make your own decision. Don't make a decision based on what someone else tells you is right or wrong. If you come to your own conclusions, you have no one to blame but yourself.
  • View author's info Posted on Aug 24, 2005 at 05:55 AM



    desert_raine write:
    I'm not really sure that I believe in karma..I've seen too many awful people live rich, healthy lives, and too many angels die young. but i'm also not sure how i feel about black magick (regardless of whether it will come back to me or not, i don't know if i have the right to dispense judgment..). at any rate, my question is this.. is it wrong to cast a spell to teach a lesson, not so much to cause suffering, but to inhibit someone by force (shock collar, anyone?) from continuing in behavior that has hurt you in the past and, since the person in question never learned his lesson, continues to hurt others now? :) any thoughts??



    Are you Hindu? If not, why would you be worried about karma? Karma is a Hindu concept, just as sin is a christian concept. If you aren't Hindu, don't concern yourself with it. And besides, when and if karma does effect you, you'll be dead already and won't realise how karma effected you.

    Thanks to all the new age fluff about magic, it's a wonder anyone still knows what they are doing. I've heard people say "magic is like prayers... and we don't cast spells, except maybe healing spells." Give me a break. Where did the rule about not interfereing with free will come from? I'd like to see how successful Abramelin would have been with that rule in place. If you have questions on black magic, check out "The Black Arts" by Richard Cavendish, or "The book of Black Magic" by Arthur Edward Waite. Also, if you can find a copy pick up "A Treatise on White Magic" by Alice A. Bailey. All three are on Amazon. If you are looking for unbiased books on magic, don't got to your local chain bookstore. If there is a metaphysical shop near you, contact them and they will usually order books for you. You aren't going to find decent material that is still in print. I would avoid some of the hgh profile names like Aleister Crowley. Stay away from the new age junk from Llewelyn Publishing.

    Anyway, to answer your question. No, it is not wrong to inhibit someone from hurting others, or themselves. Other may disagree, and tell you it is wrong, based on new age fluff and 'magickal morality.'
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